Monday, September 25, 2006

 

JSH: The "pure math" debacle

The real world is great for figuring out when you just screw-up, as there have been plenty of ideas people thought were great—until they tried them out in the real world and failed.

But over a hundred years ago mathematician moved away from the real world and began promoting "pure math" which had no practical value, so there was no way to tell when massive screw-ups happened, unless people got lucky, AND were willing to admit the truth.

In the arguments I'm having on these newsgroups you can see why people cannot be trusted to go with logic, which is why "pure math" fails, as some person gets some harebrained mathematical idea that he thinks is brilliant, and if he's considered tops in his field, the other mathematicians go along with him.

You challenge him, and you're pushed out of the group.

You push and you're labeled a crackpot.

Without the real world to show he's full of it, the ideas become part of the established teachings and get ever harder to unseat.

So "pure math" fails because human beings cannot be trusted to tell the truth, even when it hurts, especially when it hurts their egos!!!

So I have multiple ways to prove the coverage problem with the ring of algebrai integers, and you can watch how math people dodge every proof, every obvious point, and even play stupid with basic algebra, to keepthe wrong ideas in place, showing why "pure math" is a complete failure.

In contrast, in the physics field, someone claims they have a device that generates lots of free energy, well, people want to plug it up, right?

But in the math field, some professor claims he has a great proof, and two or three other professors chime in and say he does, you have to fight, and fight, and fight to argue that he does not, no matter what you find, unless other mathematicians decide they wish to agree with you!

Every example where mathematicians have gone along with saying someone is wrong, shows you how easy it is for someone that is wrong to get credit for being right.

Students pay the price.

You learn wrong mathematical ideas, can appear to prove ANYTHING with wrong ideas when you actually prove nothing, and eventually history will correct, and you will mostly be the invisible victims.

Make no mistake, if you come up with what you think is a brilliant mathematical argument using flawed ideas that argument is not brilliant. And neither are you.

[A reply to someone who thanked James for for saying some of what he had been thinking.]

I wish I could trust you on that but I get so many people playing what they think are funny games that I'll have to doubt your sincerity, but make several crucial points in reply:
  1. I got published. My paper went to a peer reviewed mathematical journal, where I even told them that I was not a professional mathematician, and got quite a bit of support from the editors—up until some sci.math people starting an email campaign against it.

    They had the paper for nine months. Sci.math'ers got them to yank it in a DAY.

    Nine months of waiting down the drain in 24 hours.

  2. I can explain points down to basic axioms, even getting into debates where I easily proved that my conclusions follow trivially from the distributive property, only to get posters claiming, yes, they believe the distributive property, but still saying I had to be wrong.
That and more shows you what's wrong with "pure math" as a real world activity as people can just lie.

Acceptance of mathematical proof depends on people willing to follow rules, and over and over again people here refuse to follow rules, so the impasse continues.

I've wryly noted that if my ideas could build a better atomic bomb there wouldn't be a problem.

But that goes to the heart of the issue—if there is nothing but the word of some people then those people can lie.

And a lot of them can lie and they can lie for long periods of time especially when their interests are at stake.

So "pure math" fails because people can do "pure" junk, deny that's what they're doing, and fight like hell when you prove that is what they're doing, as they try to make damn sure no one believes you!





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